The Art of Defiance:

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This page contains a long list of irrelevant replies to my site. Do not allow yourself to be pulled in by the pointless arguments made in these replies. All of them were written by people who have are content with an aimless society. The difference between the defiant and the one who is controlled by society is subtle to the inexperienced (I consider myself to have been "inexperienced" until I was about 22), but it is clear and distinct and by now I can recognize fake defiants fairly quickly.

It is always easier and much quicker to invent low-quality ideas and arguments and express them than it is to prove their irrelevance and flawed derivation. Everybody else consumes a large amount of information and analyzes a little bit of everything, but none of it properly. There are so many useless ideas in the world (and many seem deceptively relevant or interesting), proving each of them useless individually is impossible. The basic idea is to take only a handful of them and analyze them completely and ignore all the rest. Then prove the remaining ideas wrong within your mind before you ever read or hear about them.

November 2000

11/06/2000 I have visited your new web site and agree with it.  We should not allow ourselves to become part of humanity but should rise above it. 

11/08/2000 I was also very fascinated by the website told me about.  It was really...really good.  You put thoughts in my head into words that I have been trying to for so long.  Everything you said in it was everything about me.  Being a defiant is what I am and what I set my life to be.  I just really couldn't stop reading it. Also if you don't mind me asking.  I am a junior in high school right now and seeing how you put my head into words must mean that we are similar in some ways.  So I was wondering what you do for a living because I can't seem to find any field of interest to me.  Everything seems pointless, but I realize if I don't find a job I won't be able to support myself.  So I guess I am just looking for some ideas or something along the lines of that coming from a defiant like yourself.   Also if there is anything I can do to help or be of assistance in contributing to this defiant goal, tell me.  This is actually something that I have been dedicating my life to for the last couple of years and I don't plan on stopping.  Once again I would just like to compliment Art of Defiance website and your ideas and thoughts that you put into it.  They are the best explanations I have heard so far.

December 2000

12/13/2000 I would suggest that your over 20 rule is extremely conformist and perhaps you are lost after all. I go where I want and read what I please. when you wake and join those of us that are truly outside of society, please let me know. ewizard

12/13/2000 You assume entirely too much to begin with. Once you've come up with your premise then you should support it with sound logic or as close to a fact as possible. Also you might want to consider the possibility that not one of your ideas is original and in fact they have been expressed and explored by others in a far more incitefull and interesting manner. You may want to consider the possibility that one can absorb information from schools, books, whatever the source may be, and use ones own reasoning abilities to decide the value of said information. In short think for your self. Question authority always for that matter question everything always, but remember we are limited by our perceptions therefore the whole truth of things can not be known. Yet you come off as those you preach against, you often speak in absolutes as if because you find fault in others or in other systems of thought, and probably correctly so sometimes, that now you should share your wisdom with the world. So don't listen to them you say, because they all are sheep. But you alone have seen through the illusion huh, and now you want to spread your word, just like those you gripe about. So be it. But know this you are not alone in your rebellion, a little naive in your comprehension perhaps. All this being said I enjoyed reading through your articles and appreciated the conviction with which you write, and I wish you luck on your journey.

12/21/2000 What a sad way to live your life. Per your own ideals, no one, even you ("the leader") can't acheive what you want. I feel sorry

12/28/2000 Your website is, well, simply put, mildly amusing. At least amusing to read, but the message is somewhat disturbing. To defy: 1)to resist boldy 2)to challenge 3) to resist or obstruct. Now if you are primarily using definition 2, I would somewhat agree with you, that we can't just blindly accept everything we are told, including teachers and parents. But the broad meaning of the word, used as you recommend in your site, could be harmful....downright dangerous. To tell some teens "to defy everything" is like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee in a crowded room. You say you are a college graduate, and I assume you are not writing this from a prison cell, so might I also assume that you were unsuccessful in your defiance? If I may opine (yep....another opinion), if teenagers get the message you send the same way I understood it, they will be far less likely to succeed in life. But perhaps failure could be just another form of defiance, right? theanalystguy

12/28/2000 yes. the whole thing didn't make any sense for one. and two i thought your coment survay would be more along the lines of "are you like me?" and "if not then screw you". but i dunno all i know is the world as it is today is how it will be for some time. no one is in anyhurry to change it. yeah people think about how much it sucks and how they would like to change is but the thing is, is that people are used to live how it is and are afriad of change that they know is happening. plus people don't have the motivetion to anything. so in turn it is best to just accept the world how it is but go your own way in it. and if you have the motivetion and the suplys to do then try to change the world. but if you don't have the motivtion then quit your bitchin'.

12/29/2000 You are preaching and not philosophizing. You express many ideas that you say are bad, but then you turn around and use them. You say that we should not have opinions, but your whole web site is nothing more than your opinion. You say essays are bad, but you are writing one. I stongly disagree with you when you say that literature is evil. What good do you think it would do if we burned all the books? Books are a tool for wise people to comunicate their ideas, to share and combine their knowledge. Without them, our world would surely become stale. We would have a crash in creativity and beauty. I do believe in what you are trying to do, but you solutions to these problems that you come up with are way off. Please don't think that I am trying to make light of you, because I am truly not. You clearly spent a lot of time on this, but you obviously have to much pain and anger inside you. This distorts your ability to see the errors in your thinking. I must admit. I didn't read everything on this site, but what I did read was very contradicting of itself in terms of formal logic and determination. Some of it was just plain wrong, but there were a few rays of hope shining through your dark clouds. You at least sense that their is a problem with our world, though you cannot fully grasp where that problem lies. Most people never even get as far as you, though you have only just begun. If you would read more, you would come to realize that your ideas don't make sense and are very childish.

12/29/2000 What you hate is irrelevant to everyone and everything. How fortunate for you that you are such a loner. You are in no position to judge stupidity or intelligence. May your umbrage at all things bring you the wisdom to defy the ulcers and strokes your petulant philosophy will likely engender. Have a nice life.

January 2001

1/2/2001 I really liked what you had to say. Although, I did find what you said about "adults or people over 20" a little narrow minded. If you do not allow that some adults have actually escaped indoctrination, then you've in essence defeated your own argument. After all, you will be an adult one day (if you are not already) and if you are as steadfast in your views as you claim then you will have had to remained "defiant." I myself am over 20 an I like to believe that I have escaped to some extent. Listen, I just wanted to let you know that you are an extremely good thinker... It's not easy to say the stuff you have said or even believe it inside your own head. There are people out there who think like you, never give up looking. Not many of us can stick to ideas like these our whole lives, It's hard with so many against you. But it can be done Sometimes defiance is all there is to cling to, just knowing that stuff is so wrong and everyone is so wrong... and wondering why noone can see it but you. Well anyway, keep writing this stuff and don't ever give up because it's important. I just wanted to say one more thing about meaning and meaninglessness. I liked what you said and I wanted to offer a different point of view. If the only basic principle of the universe we can rely upon is uncertainty(chaos), then we can be certain that we cannot be certain. Your argument is somewhat circular in it's reasoning. Humans often concern themselves with this quest for meaning. We create meaning where there is no evidence either way, The only recourse I have been able to discover is to just be comfortable with the chaos, don't try to make something serious(orderly) that isn't. One has to become comfortable with being nothing, coming from chaos and going to chaos. Half of everything we do is chance anyway. In quantum mechanics we learned that everything is made up of rapidly vibrating particles this is what matter is constructed out of. Beyond the particles, there is nothing there. What this can be taken to mean is that everything we see, feel hear, touch, taste, whatever, is not really there. None of this is. No one knows anything. But we act as if we do. that's how meaningless life is. Either become comfortable with it or live a completely neurotic and unfulfilled life. --thanks for your time.

1/2/2001 I agree with pretty much everything you have to say about society. Society is wrong and very screwed up. And there definately is no logical explanation as to why we learn History.

1/3/2001 You have listed some valid ideas on your web site. However, they are thought through with little clarity and purpose. You seem to be opposed to positive energy. What is the logic in that? You seem to be opposed to diversity. For what reason? There are many ways to achieve what is important to you. Many people exist who could and would help you. It is arrogant and presumptuous to assume that you are alone. I, myself, am defiant in many ways. Yet, I do not embrace a negative path in life. Not all adults are the way that you propose. I know many of them. Look within yourself. There is a better way. Spreading negativity and bottling up emotions will only cause harm to yourself and others. Look inward for the answers.

1/3/2001 Man your lost dude bikers have been doing this shit for years thats what being a biker is all about, get a cycle get outta your cage and get a life!! Harley

1/4/2001 You Need Jesus, I'm praying for you.

1/5/2001 You believe that you are defiant. I think you're crazy. Who's computer are you using to be so defiant with? Is it possible that some responsible person paid for it? You said that you graduated from college. That sort of blows yor defiance all to hell doesn't it. It would also make you not a teenager anymore wouldn't it. You sure are defiant. You aren't honest with yourself punk or with anyone who's ever stumbled into your crappy site. Shut up, grow up, and quit lying. If you want to be so defiant then you should get off of your Mom's computer, get out from under your parents wing, and go be your confused self in your own little defiant world. think it through and you just may still turn out okay! GOOD LUCK! You make me laugh!

1/5/2001 You should not classify anyone over the age of twenty as an adult. As a twenty-three year old I am still a child, AND I DONT CONFORM TO anything. I agree with many if not all of the things you say about school. I did not take anybodys shit then and i wont now... I wish you luck with this for i have had the same exact opinions. PEACE> Chris

1/5/2001 Just how stoned are you?

1/6/2001 Never give up, there is a light in the distence. Sometimes it seems to get farther away, but it shall never wink out as long as you have hope and patience. For patience is the key to achieve anything in the world.

1/10/2001 Your an idiot. You are a hypocritical idiot. You are against expressing opinions, yet your website expresses your opinions on socitey. You state problems with society. You are getting nowhere. Everyone can critize, can you find a solution? Read Ismael by Daniel Quinn. Or My Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. Or Walden by Thoreau. I understand that your purpose was merely to bring things to the attention of others, but now go beyond that. Use your mind to try and change society.

1/10/2001 I'm old and defiant. I'm 36 and work part-time as an IT manager. I have a 60% useless job. I work 20 hrs. a week. I want it all to burn down. Your site is perfectly defiant. I will not say I approve, because our goals may not be the same, in which case I would defy them. You might be interested in some other defiers: early Lenny Bruce or early Henry Rollins.

1/11/2001 I am thoroughly intrigued. You have managed to escape indoctrination, and you say you recently graduated college, which would probably make you an "adult" by your own terms. So, two questions: 1) If your an adult that has escaped indoctrination than how can you be so sure there are no others like yourself? 2)Why the hell did you go to college if you hate school so much? Confession: I am 20. (Not in college) I started to read your page, saw the link saying all adults 20 and over click here, followed it, read that page, and defiantly went back and finished reading your first page :) So, this is to let you know that there is hope out there. Part of the reason I survived the school conspiracy was because of my own stubborness, but it did help that I somehow managed to find others like myself... he he he... Since then we have stirred up quite a posse of rebellion :) So now I am 20, married to a likewise very defiant husband, with a 17 month old boy and a 2 month old girl. "The perfect American Family", right? That's probably not what society will think once they see that we have raised our children with the awareness of their plot of indoctrination and armed them for battle (metaphorically speaking, of course). You may think, okay, they are an exception, but there can't be others like that. Well, there are at least a few, we know them. So there is some hope for the next generation. The illusion is that society is in control. They are blinded by that illusion and that will be their downfall. So the only thing I'm still really confused by is why you went to college?....

1/11/2001 i came across your site searching for the word "draconian" to explain its meaning to my son who is nine. i must say how much i admire the time you have spent in creating this site; however, do you not think the very existence of the site denotes conformity? i would think the true defiant would simply think and not communicate, for anytime more than one human gets together in one place, you have a social situation. the words you use, the punctuation, the context; these things have all been ingrained in your conciousness as easily as the idea of wearing clothes. these are all cultural ways of communication. you would not live long if you did not conform in some way to the society you exist in. it sounds from your writing as if you could possibly be interested in communism, which in my humble opinion is a wonderful idea--in theory. unfortunately, this idea does not work in reality. i visited a commune a few years ago and the particular one i visited has been in existence for almost ninety years. they did very well, and also made great jelly. the participants were happy or at least content and planned on being there for the rest of their lives, as many had before them. they worked very hard, for they grew their own food and also had a sheep farm for wool which they dyed and made into yarn. it was a wonderful experience; i was only sixteen at the time and would probably have noticed more of their social structure had i been a little older; at the time i was being defiant and wanted to smoke cigarettes, which of course they did not do. anyway, there was no pressure to stay on there, a prospective participant was given one year as a trial period and then decided if they wanted to stay on. this particular society seemed utopia for these particular people and i admire their peace and determination. however, they were all celibate. this was absolutely crucial to their survival. when sex is involved, competition is inevitible. there was even an older married couple whose children were grown, but they also abided by this rule and even lived in separate buildings. there is a biological factor in conformity, and many people are not aware of it enough to overcome it, or have no desire to do so. children, teenagers, simply do not have the guidance or the experience to be able to recognize what is happening to them before they become small versions of their parents. and even if they do have parents or adults around them that are aware and try to keep them innocent of society's poor ideas about things, they tend to rebel all the same and simply go overboard with conformity. however, this does not mean they will remain that way forever. i believe you are underestimating the power of experience and intelligence. i also believe you are underestimating the very message you are trying to send; i am sure you yourself must have been influenced by another human who seemed defiant to you, and you recognized this quality and admired it for your own reasons. therefore, you yourself would be conforming to an ideal in your own mind. defiance is just as human as conformity; one could not exist without the other. there will never be a total extreme encompassing all humans of either, it is simply not possible. as a whole we are stupid. as a whole we are vastly intelligent; it is all in your perspective. i find your views interesting and i also find your warning to those over twenty to go somewhere else insulting. one day, you will be over twenty (in fact, you say you have graduated college; i am sure it is possible you are under twenty, but unlikely). do you think your ideas will be invalid once you reach this magic age? i think perhaps you want to make teenagers feel welcome on your site, and that is nice, but why alienate otbers? teenagers themselves do not get the respect they and all humans deserve regardless of age; why conform to society's prejudice against age and make others feel unwelcome? many people feel many different ways about all of these subjects you bring up and many people are very much aware what is happening to them. some care and some don't. some change and others stay the same. i wonder if you have ever taken a philosophy class; perhaps you would find some like minds in such an experience. good luck to your future self and thank you for making me think

1/12/2001 yeah, i am a pupil who goes to the same school as my country's prime minister's daughter, so now our school looks "the best" but, think about this... all of the teachers that i now have are basically not very good and when she first came to this school they were all really nice and good and we actually learnt something, not 2 years on, i am learning nothing and im doing my GCSE's now, even if i complain to someone that person always defends the teacher, they always seem to twist my problems and indeed my friends' problems and put it down to organisation, motivation and other things and send you to the school chaplin to "listen" to your problems, its so pathetic, nothing is done to help us, its just made worse, but its no use telling someone because we know nothing is gonna be done, and thats even more stressing, i think that a lot of schools are like that and many pupils suffer because heads of years and deputy heads cant be bothered to help improve the teaching and attitudes of the teachers.

1/15/2001 I've read your website and I have read every link. I makes me think of things i did in high school which only happened not too long ago. I was a deviant but I was not ignorant. Without school people wouldn't know how to quote stats, write coherently, or have the ability functionally get along with their own lives. Sure, most of what is learn in high school seems pointless but if you think about it, it isn't. Math isn't taught to teach numbers, it is taught to teach people how to solve problems in a logical order. You don't read novels for entertainment you read them to learn different styles of writing and how each of them are correct. You seem way too ignorant to understand any of this. Ghandi said that their are two parts to civil disobedience: 1) the courage to commit an immoral act 2) the willingness to accept the consequences. If people were willing the accept the consequences then they wouldn't flaile when they were being arrested or get pissed off when when someone told them they were nothing but a loser. Saying school is stupid is only an excuse for ones on ignorance. You have this site just for attention just like the line of kids dyeing their hair blue, wearing spikes, and smoking their Camel Wides bitching about how everyone conforms except for them. There are over 100 of them exactly like the one right in front of them and you see these lines up and down Skid Row, driving the Soho, and watching the television. Conformity, or even non-conformity, doesn't have anything to do with what someone looks like, what they do, or who they are around. its all about a state of mind. The people that work their asses off getting good grades in school, devoting their time to learning what they should know to get by and live a comfortable life are the true deviants. It's people who preach about how stupid school is that are one welfare popping out baby after baby, wasting their lives away on cocaine, starting fights on the streets every night are just making an excuse for their own mistakes. Someone Smart PS: You should be using the word Deviant on defiant. Its improper grammer but you wouldn't know that would you?

1/16/2001 You make very good arguments and i have a lot of the same ideals about existence. However, you are very long winded, extremely narrow-minded, and you are an extremely bad hypocrite. I will email you again when I have more time to go a little more in depth on just how much of an ignoramous you sound like. Feel free to email me back. College? hmm...

1/20/2001 Nice piece of work. I recently thought up the art of silence, which revolves around never speaking to anyone because it lowers you to their level, but I am not yet ready to carry it out. What you say seems to make more sense than other philosophies that have intriged me recently namely Ayn Rand's Objectivism and the ideas of the Unabomber manifesto. There are some things that intrige me namely do you all those who are defiant to come to the same conclusions when they have solved the unknown and if defiant people came to have an influence how would society be changed to reflect this? What you have got so far is v good if a little ambigurous in parts.

1/21/2001 you're a fucking idiot. Do you even know what is like to be ahead of this system. maybe, just maybe, all the other ways have been tried out. did you ever stop to think that maybe someone has seen all those other ways to run things?

1/23/2001 Food for thought: How will you know when you've won your war, and are no longer "a lone soldier in enemy territory"? More importantly, what happens then? How does a nonconformist, in the exclusive company of nonconformists, fail to conform? Get a job, perhaps? Wear a tie? Vote Republican? It sounds like Adolf Hitler is one of your personal heroes. Ironic that he made a concerted effort to eradicate nonconformists, isn't it?

1/24/2001 You and I know I'm the only person that will probably ever visit this site and it'll go away just like that ficticiuos band from Houston. I'm not trying to start a revolution, I just want to live my life. Now please treat me like you would an unconciouss person and let me live.

1/25/2001 i read the whole home page writing and i agree with u completely im 16 years old and i feel that school is poinless they teach the ssame thing over and over again beating useless information into your brain until there is no room in your mind to think for yourself i just am relived to see that im not the only person to think like you and me and a small portion of the population do thanks

1/26/2001 Alright you fucking moron, what the hell do you think your escaping from anyway. Hey i spent my enitre high school career skipping class and skating by on tests. I was born unfortunately with a fairly high intelligence, and i used it so I could do what I wanted to. I still do to a certain extent. I have allways been passive aggressive in my defiance. The only trouble is, I have no clue what i spent most of this time being defiant about. Whats the point really, all I got now is some ullsers and a transcript that reflects my underacheiving. When you sya to be defiant against society and all that crap, sure, but why. They aren't trying to control you, and if they are how are they doing it. Society is already afraid of its youth. that is why we have youth prejudice, one of the more prevalent forms of bigotry in this country. We control them. We have since the sixties. We tell them what to like, even though it may suck. What to put money into, even though its just a fad. Hell, we have the whole world by its fucking balls, why tug at them harder when we can already make the entire adult population do whatever we want. I'm going to tell you this once. The only place so called "defiance" puts you in is disenfranchisement. Stand up and stop being a pussy ass. You can take control in much smarter ways than just being a little shit. The government in this country has all kinds of bleeding heart programs to put you in power. Take control of the bastards dumb ass. The reason adults are such dicks to us is because they resent our power. I just turned 22 years of age, I hold a seat on the economic delvelopment board in my rather unpopulated corner of the country. I also have pretty much a good say over two city councels. land grants and advantages don't go anywhere until they have passed through me. i stumbled on your site by accident. I hope my poorly grammered and rashly written statement can at least plant a seed in your thick skull. You have some valuable ideals, but your tactics suck. Quit with the small time bull shit and grab some of the reigns that you suppose the powers that be hold. They're scared of you. Believe me.